Emotional Immaturity, ADHD & Healing Through Reparenting Yourself with Sarah Russell (Part 2)

  Welcome to the Outsmart ADHD podcast. I'm your host, Jamie Cuttino, board certified occupational therapist, two time TED speaker, ADHD coach, ADHD advocate, and reality show contestant. Now, let's talk about ADHD.

 Last time, Sarah and I dove into emotional immaturity, childhood trauma, and how it impacts ADHD ers. Today, we're picking up right where we left off. Let's get into it.

I think for me, it was always a lot more clear that my mom was. Emotionally immature. I think I always demonized my dad's behavior as Oh, he's an alcoholic. Did we have the same childhood? He's working class, like he's white trash. Like he doesn't know any better. Yeah. But now I see actually that he was very, Emotionally immature and he is the one yeah, he's the bad romantic partner I was searching for you know, he didn't come to my 10th birthday party.

So I looked for him everywhere. Oh Jesus Christ that bit He didn't come to my 10th birthday party. So I looked for him everywhere. Fuck. Yeah, and he is still not mature enough to have a conversation with me about that. I did try to have a heart to heart with him recently this past year. He thought he was dying.

He's got like a heart aneurysm. Anyway, he's not dead. Very much still alive. I obviously triggered him very significantly by what I was asking because he started talking as if I was someone else. Oh, can you give more context around that? Yeah, he started he started talking to me as if I was his sister Charlene.

Whoa. And he hates her. Okay. Yeah. Can I ask? It felt like a fugue. It felt like an Alzheimer's lapse. But his doesn't have dementia. He has PTSD. He might have cognitive decline. I don't, yeah. It was interesting. So did he call you by her name? Did he just, what indicated to you that he was talking to you as if you were his sister?

Yes, he did use her name. Interesting. Very interesting. And then, but he instantly knew he used the wrong name, but he continued to get even more confused. It seemed like confront, beginning to confront the dissonance caused him to collapse into it and he got really angry and started yelling at me.

And I had to actually flee because I just didn't, I was like I got up and I was like, nobody's allowed to yell at me like that anymore. And I just walked out. And it actually did feel really. Powerful, but I unfortunately don't think he learned anything from it. No, no Conversations like that. I was just about to say that conversations like that.

You have it for you. You don't have it for the other person because It's hard to change when you want to change. You definitely aren't going to change if you don't want to change. And if you're coming to someone and saying this is an issue, the reason that they haven't changed it yet is either because they don't have the resource and support to change or they don't want to.

They don't want to acknowledge it. But one way or another, it ends up with the same thing for you because they're not able to give you what you need for a healthy relationship. They're not able to give anybody. What they need for a healthy relationship. Yeah. He also grew up estranged from his mother like with a very hateful relationship towards her.

And I never fully understood that. I wasn't very close with her, but the couple of times that I saw her at Christmas, she bought us like tons of gifts and it was very uncomfortable. It felt like that love bombing thing, but I don't know why as a 12 year old, I felt uncomfortable by that. But I did.

Something in your gut knew that this is not healthy. I knew it was wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because you His mother had just died too when all of this was happening. She had just died that year, so it's been now over a year, but And so they obviously had a really bad relationship, and he said, in his sort of yelling at me, he said, I just apologized to my mother, but I was lying.

Oh. I was just like, whoa. It

Yeah. Yeah, it felt weird, but important to mention. Yeah, cuz it just came out of nowhere He obviously meant it Did it give you more I asked him about it later. No, and he didn't remember saying it that your bio dad's Brain is really interesting. He should be a case study. He should be a case study, because I'm just like, I don't want to understand what the fuck's going on here. Trauma, working class trauma, white trash trauma, generational.

Just this, I don't even know if this is oversharing, but I'm going to do it anyway. His parents his mom was diagnosed bipolar in the late sixties and his dad was diagnosed schizophrenic in the late sixties. Both were institutionalized at some point. Oh, wow. And I don't want to. super get into this, but I do want to mention the political nature of those diagnoses during the late sixties.

Talk to me about them. What? Oh so there's, okay. So there's social research that shows schizophrenic diagnoses increased. Particularly among activists and African Americans in the late 60s, anybody who challenged the status quo and presented with paranoia was given that label. Oh, wow.

But is it really paranoia if they are out to get you? Psychiatry would say yes. Psychiatry is also whitewashed and bullshit too. I totally am just learning that. Yeah, I am too. I am totally just learning that as well. I'm learning it. My coach has There's a whole, there's a whole movement on Instagram I found about mad, mad advocacy.

Like mad people. Instead of and basically just talking about psych abolition. Just because Yeah, I'll give you the handle later. Please do that. That sounds really Yeah. Yeah. That's something I definitely want to talk about. I love learning on social media. I am so happy that there still exists some spaces to share.

And I know that they're heavily Controlled. Yeah. Somebody asked me the other day, Sarah, how do you avoid propaganda? How do you protect yourself against propaganda? I said, you don't. You don't. You don't avoid it. You acknowledge that you're constantly consuming it and you question everything before you share it.

Yes. And if you're tired just thinking about it, you should be. You're supposed to be. That's the point. Yeah. Yeah. Underline that 17, 000 fucking times. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Can you tell me about your. Substack pseudo, is it called pseudo, pseudonym? Pseudonym. Pseudonym. Yeah, so I just, so I created a substack.

I'm about to post my first post today. Ooh, yeah! Yeah, so I'm going by the name Pearl E. Russell. And that's a throwback, actually, to my great grandfather on my dad's side. My mad side. The only thing I know about him is that his name was Pearly Russell, and he came from Canada. Okay. I love this.

Oh. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So does that, so the name, does it represent like strength to you? So we're talking like early 1900s yeah, I think, so for a long time, I actually hated my name. It was super boring. Nah, I've gone through lots of stages with it, especially like Recognizing that it might come from British colonialists, you know from the late 1700s, anyway Really just trying to challenge Who I am And actually honor where I came from despite the less beautiful we look terrible on paper.

We are white trash on paper, but if you talk to me, you will see that I am a jewel, or a pearl. Yeah. I am a pearl. Yeah. And your Facebook name is on your business page the, Yeah, so I transformed, so I transformed my business page into a shit posting page. Huh. Yeah. I just wanted a space to vent, and so I renamed it. It used to be called ADHD Coaching with Sarah. And now it's called Hysterical Woman. Because I am a hysterical woman. Are you That's about as figured out as I've got my brain. Hysterical. Are you comfortable sharing the reasoning behind it, or would you prefer to not get into that?

I do want to talk about it, because I'm actually really proud. I appreciate you asking, of course. Yeah

I think the easiest way to tell this story is that it's a shout out to a newspaper article from 2018. This article describes an account of domestic abuse, and it cites a police report, what

Yeah, it quotes a police report saying like we encountered this hysterical woman at the corner of blah blah blah and blah blah blah and I am that hysterical woman. Yeah, so I just figured let's honor that like let's just take all of the shameful labels that I have been given and shine them up.

Let's make art. Let's transfigure pain into beauty. I think it's really cool how you have. Own that label and made it what you want it to be versus them saying, okay This is what a hysterical woman is. Let's like go be shameful about it. And you're like actually That's my fucking name now. I don't want anyone to call me anything other than hysterical woman I'm gonna wear it proudly like you said that's like your scarlet letter that you're really proud of or how did you?

I think that's yeah, I worded it Yeah And I think that is a really cool thing. Did that help you to like, it seems like you are really good. I'm sure this is a skill that you've had to practice, but you're really good at reframing things. to be healing for you versus versus detrimental. And yeah. So that's, yeah, that's thanks to a different book I read called The Myth of Closure.

Oh. Yeah, it talks about how closure is a lie. And instead, we should be fostering resilience.

And so part of fostering resilience is revising the relationship that you have to the loss or the grief.

I'm so happy that you bring up closure because I understood, at least eventually, through going no contact with with my dad. I cannot recall my dad, for purposes here, my dad, but Carl, if I say Carl, that's who I'm referring to. But going no contact with Carl I knew that there wouldn't be closure and I would have to get closure within myself.

And knowing that this is just the best decision for me, so there's not much more to, there's not much more to explore there as far as closure. But it did take a long time to get there. My husband is not, he's much earlier in the journey, still wanting closure, still seeking closure. It's hard seeing somebody seeking something that you know that they're never going to get and is going to put a speed bump in the healing, but also is a part of the healing.

Yeah. It's hard. So can you talk a little bit more of what you mean by closure isn't really a thing? You'd mentioned before of, is this like where you talk about like moving on versus letting go? Is this, is that, or is that a separate thing?

It was a separate thing, but you just closed that loop for me. Oh my goodness. What a beautiful metaphor. Gosh, I'm going to think about that for a second.

Yeah. I think for a long time, I thought that closure meant like. Letting go like this thing would no longer have an impact on me I'd be able to just be done with it over that door is closed but Unfortunately realized And read over and over again in different social sciences books. There is no such thing as closure in every instance of a loss or of a grief. And to be searching for that is, Giving away your power. Yeah. You, I think what I'm doing now what I'm trying to help teach everybody else now is that we can move forward with what happened to us. What happened to us is always going to be a part, but we can move forward and be a new thing. And that requires a little bit of letting go of your previous identity.

And becoming that new thing, like the butterfly in the cocoon metaphor. It's really classic for getting over grief, but it is perfect. Yeah, could you say that? Because go ahead, sorry. Yeah you crumble, you turn into goop as you're grieving. And then you emerge as this new thing that doesn't know how to fly yet, but you're here and you're going to do that thing.

So yeah, you're off those wings. That is such, it's such a beautiful and very tangible metaphor, especially for fellow black and white thinkers, which thank you because any, I'm just like, visual can really help me to fully understand something, especially for my black and white brain. Do you think that people seek closure because they seek for the pain to stop?

And if they realize that the pain is never actually going to stop, it's going to change, maybe lessen, as you have more of an understanding and have healing in yourself? I think that's what I'm seeing coming, going on with my husband anyway, is that any, is that he's, he wants the pain to stop and that pain never completely goes away.

It's always going to impact you to some degree. My favorite therapist, that was my least favorite thing he ever said. My least favorite thing he ever said. You never You're never done with PTSD. You're never healed from your triggers. But over time, they become fewer and far between. They become less intense when they arise.

And you're able to manage them better in the moment. And that's what healing is. It's not like never having to deal with this again. It's not oh, I don't have this relationship anymore. It's No I see them differently now. I know what they are to me now. I know what I can expect from them now.

And I know more what I can expect from myself. Healthy. Yeah. What are some healthy expectations? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's different for everybody. For you, that's no contact. And for me, that's loving my dad from a distance. And through text. I think whatever boundary you need to set so that it is not detrimental to your mental health is the right boundary.

I think 100 percent agree. I think that there's, you can't seek in other people or books or whatever the right boundary is for you. It's just something that you inherently know. And I think that it's, I don't even want to get into the cultural implications. It's it feels super white to be like, yeah, fuck my dad.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely not in a different household. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How have You have managed your journey of gaining emotional maturity while having all of these traumas. You have clearly done so much work on yourself on understanding yourself, on, on healing traumas. And I'm curious if you can remember back to before working on all of this,

I'm trying to think of the best way to like word this, but, it's really hard to respond in an emotionally mature way when you haven't worked through the traumas yet. Super true. I still yell at my kids sometimes. I know I seem super zen. But yeah, I definitely mess up still.

That's A lot different from how it looked ten years ago, I remember one time I was screaming at my kid and clenching my jaw so hard that I actually chipped a tooth. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. That's bad. My holy shit is not like, Oh my God, what a horrible person, Sarah. But it's just Oh no, you have to have been feeling in insurmountable about amount of like pain and tension to have done that.

Like my I want to go back in time and give that Sarah a hug. I don't know if you're a hug person. So I'd ask you if you're a hug person before giving you a, Oh, okay. I am too. So I'm just like, I just want to go back in time and hug that Sarah because the pain you were feeling at that time.

Totally. And then I definitely felt shame in the doctor's office explaining that's what had happened. Not a lot of people understand what it's like to feel so intensely. Mhm. And I'm not sure if that's who I always was going to be. Mhm. Or if that's a result of the nervous system dysregulation that I've experienced over the decades.

Yeah. The world will never know. Crunch.

That's a Tootsie Roll reference for all of you non Tootsie Pop fans. I feel like if you lived through the 90s or early 2000s that you'd, yeah I'm like, now I want a fucking sucker. So your parenting approach. Having this journey that you have been on, do you have a specific approach or strategies for parenting that clearly you were not on the receiving end of? I'm curious. I am definitely still looking for suggestions, so if anybody wants to reach out to me to give me some yeah, definitely, we can barter services.

I love it. But for sure conscious discipline is the overall framework that I've been using to Keep everything orderly in my brain and conscious discipline basically is just a set of practices that mean like we can't effectively discipline our children when they are emotionally dysregulated.

So we first have to move their brain into a state of regulation so that we can properly download the discipline. That's their official language. Now I. I have been using that approach with adults my entire life, I think my entire conscious life, huh that's I just remembered that I used to be an argumentative person and I was not always this way anyway, I think they're, that can be chaotic to remember, cause it's like, Why are you talking are you a hypocrite, actually?

I'm really happy that you mentioned that because sometimes it is very jolting to think about who, at least for me personally, who I used to be, and feeling like I am a hypocrite, talking about things that I had once struggled with, even though I logically know that, The person that can help you the most is someone who's been through it themselves, but there is a tug of but am I a hypocrite for talking about this?

If, yeah, how dare I say that? Like, how dare I like humble brag right now at all? Yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to honor that was coming up for me because I'm sure anybody going through this work is going to experience that as well, probably more than once. I'm going to forget that I've had this realization, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And then you think about like 17 different angles and I'll go even deeper into it. So the, so definitely, yeah, so definitely the conscious discipline is like the overall framework but then they espouse lots of things like having a regulation corner in your room, which is just like an overstimulation zone.

That's like ADHD coaching stuff that I've been talking about forever, like sensory support stuff. It's having specific language to use, have a formula to use. I can't think of Let's see, it, you wouldn't go up to a child who's throwing a tantrum and be like, give me that was not nice, say sorry, and expect that they're gonna learn three independent statements all while they're crying and having a meltdown because so and so didn't share with them.

You need to interrupt that crying. You need to like co regulate with this child. You need to like grab them or whatever feels comfortable for them and just be like, I am here. Ugh, that is so hard. See them

and you can still be firm and be like, so and so didn't like it when you took the toy from them. That is not okay. Do you see cognitive discipline as, is it like a Venn diagram with gentle parenting where there are similarities? Do you see them as the same? Do you see them as completely different? What are your thoughts?

I am definitely not a spokesperson, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna just say what I think because that's what you asked specifically. Yeah, of course. Oh my gosh, wow, I get to speak for myself. Wow. Standing in my power, guys. Yes. Honestly,

I think that conscious discipline is like a vessel for gentle parenting. It's a way to do gentle parenting. It's here you go, we've already figured it out for you. There's like workshops, there's free resources, there's a million books, there's probably There's definitely content creators out there specifically to help you with your special needs child, or your teenage child, or your adopted child, yeah, it's Yeah. It's a vessel. It's a tool. I love that. It's inside the circle. Yeah. Yeah. Fully. It seems like it's very approachable for for a black and white thinker. Someone who needs to be told what to do, especially if you've come from an unhealthy family. I feel like it'd be really helpful for, just to understand what does healthy even fucking look like?

Because I think it's really hard to even know what healthy looks like when you come from an un, such an unhealthy family of origin. Totally. This is reminding me of a really common accommodation that we'll give ADHD and autistic children in school is to give them a completed example of the assignment, so that they know what done looks like.

If you've never received conscious discipline before obviously you're not going to be able to do that for your child, but if you want to learn here are some really easy ways. I also incorporate, I got a board book called Breathe Like a Bear. And it's it's just this beautiful little story about a bear going to look for a cave and breathe in and out.

Bear is so relaxed. And sometimes when my son gets stressed out, I've conditioned him to the point where I can just be like, ah, mommy is so relaxed. And then he'll stop crying and go get me that book. Not a hundred percent. But because it worked more than one time. It's magic. I'm gonna, I'm gonna share that strategy.

It worked. That's incredible. That is incredible. I know. Not to mention, this two year old is also non speaking. Oh, wow. He communicates verbally with screams and other sort of non verbal cues, but, his language is very limited, yeah, it's really incredible. And so I definitely advocate it for any I don't know, non verbal or non speaking child.

Yeah. Do you prefer the term non, like non verbal or non speaking? I'm so glad that you picked up on that. I was recently, so obviously my child isn't using words, so I've been learning ASL. And so I was looking for a sign that was, like, for nonverbal. I'm going nonverbal. I don't want to talk anymore.

And I couldn't find there's no definitive answer, but the best thing I found was, like, taking Your hand to your neck and then locking your voice like turning the key like my voice is locked now So I like that one for like selective speaking yeah, and I under yeah, and so during that I Discovered that there was a difference.

I didn't even know previously, I learned, I actually learned the distinction between those terms very recently, and so I have no opinion and I think I just want everyone to feel comfortable and safe around me, so I'll be happy to use whatever. I'm told is appropriate. Yeah, that's just really cool.

I hadn't heard of a term that would be anywhere in the realm of nonverbal. So that's really interesting. Can I ask you a personal question? As a fellow autistic person, do you have moments of going non verbal or non speaking when you are incredibly dysregulated? I know I do. Yes and I didn't realize.

I didn't realize that's what was happening. Yeah, okay, so I'm the kind of person that has always just break down into tears. Yes. Yep. And that always was looked at as oh, she's admitting that she's guilty, right? But I'm just so overwhelmed that I can't even begin to start explaining to you why I'm even upset and crying right now, let alone.

That I didn't even do this. And so my selective mutism always was like crying. It wasn't until very recently when I was medicated for my ADHD, that I was no longer breaking down in tears, but my brain, like literal representation of does not compute, like my, I would just like I thought I was having strokes all of a sudden I started to get really concerned about myself And so I went to see many doctors And they were all like you're fine.

I think you're stressed out and I'm like I know I'm stressed out But I've always been able to talk before not very well, but yeah you know explain a large part of my childhood Sarah. Thank you so much because I normalize that experience. Yeah. Love yourself. Yeah, cause I'm over here, I'm just like, am I a fraud?

That I'm going nonverbal? I'm like, no, I can't fucking talk. If I try to talk through this, I'm gonna be, I have to literally scream through it. I'll be a hysterical woman. Yeah, you will see a hysterical woman. So I was feeling like, oh am I a fraud? Am I making myself go nonverbal somehow?

Because I don't remember doing it as a child. But I was also that kid who would cry when I was overwhelmed. And now I don't even, didn't even realize that, of course how would I have known that at that time especially, but that was me going selectively nonverbal when I was overwhelmed and could not compute.

Wow. You just taught me a big thing about me, Sarah, and I really appreciate that. You're so welcome. I love seeing this happen. I could like I could really see that in your face, too. Thank you. I can tell that you're an amazing coach even not having been your client specifically I can tell that you're an amazing coach by how fired up you get about other people's self discovery and growth.

I think it's really cool. Thank you. Yeah, I'm even still, I've been a coach for four years and I'm still uncertain in about calling myself a coach. Who the fuck am I to call myself a coach? But I am here I am out here doing things, educating people and getting them all riled up to go do awesome things.

Yeah, I it's been really awesome to grow into that so that all of this wouldn't be wasted on just one lifetime, so much learning for just, for it to die with one brain, like Yeah, so when you are feeling RSD about putting yourself out there and getting clients now you can reflect on this moment of if I don't do this, all this is gonna die with me and yeah, how sad.

I don't, I had to play tricks on myself like that when I was earlier in business of if I don't do this work, who the fuck is I can't, and I realized now I'm understanding that like the savior complex unfortunately is rooted in like white supremacy and bullshit. And I'm working on dismantling that too.

But sometimes having that. can get you over the RSD of like, how scary it is to put yourself out there. Sarah, you've been doing this for four years. You've been doing this literally longer than I have. Why is there any hesitation? I'm saying this with so much love. Why is there any hesitation to call yourself a coach?

Because what the fuck, you've been doing it for a really long time. I just have a bachelor's degree in sociology, which is just Nothing. It's a nothing degree. Okay, wow, that was really insulting to the whole entire field. Please forgive me. It's like a midway degree that people get on their way to their master's, right?

I was supposed to get a master's degree, right? But I chose to have a family instead. Okay. In all of my emotional wisdom, okay? Okay, so is But now I can't pick. But now I can't pick, okay? Do I want to be this, that, the other thing? Do I want to pay 100, 000 to prove I'm smart? No. So I'm just going to keep it moving.

I have a theory, and maybe it's bullshit, but do you think that seeing degrees like a Bachelor's of Psychology or Sociology or Philosophy are Poo pooed on because it makes people think about things in a different way and if you think about things in a different way you are able to dismantle things like white supremacy and misogyny and, yeah.

Intersectionality is dangerous. Yeah, when you were saying that about sociology, honestly, I thought it probably It's almost like I've been in the trenches. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like you're saying that I have more knowledge than the academics. And that's why they won't let me into their club. Interesting. Thank you for that, Jamie. You are so welcome, Sarah. I remember a sociology class that I took, and the professor was like, doctors, it's pretty black and white. You have these symptoms, it's this disease, you treat it this way. But sociology, She's pretty much saying like I'm not fucking impressed with you and you're black and white like here are the facts and knowledge because I'm out here like finding the gray and things and Ambiguous loss.

Yeah. Yeah so Okay, so you're out here feeling imposter syndrome. Yeah, because of having a bachelor's degree in Sociology which is rooted in the patriarchal Probably white supremacy thinking out here changing people meritocracy still. Yeah. So just like when that thought comes up next, be like, no, fuck you.

Patriarchy, white supremacy colonize my mind. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Montreux. We all needed to hear. Yeah. So do you have any other reasons that are that at all support that you're not a coach or is that it? Because that ain't. That's. That's not working. You need a better defense. If you were your own defense lawyer right now, you'd be failing miserably, Sarah.

And I'm saying this with so much love. I appreciate that. Yeah. I really I really needed you to come for me today. They can't say region of filth.

Yeah, because A coach. Here's the thing. There are some shit coaches out there with letters after their names that they that are actually really harmful. There are shit therapists out there with letters after their name. There's also incredible coaches out there with zero letters after their name.

And there are amazing coaches that have letters after their name and they say, actually, fuck that. My coach Has a master's degree in psychology and she was like, yeah, and I'm overeducated and I realized being in academia that like this, like the field of psychology is very much whitewashed very much.

Stemmed in white supremacy culture and everything else and this is someone who as you know a master's degree in it She's not even using it to say oh, I understand things because I have master's she's like actually I learned all the things and fuck This so yes Yeah, that's how I feel about sociology.

Yeah, I was learning about nationalized healthcare systems back in 2010 and here we are And things are so bad and I'm just so sad about it, but it's fine. We're going to move on. We're going to do great things. We're going to do what we can in our control. We're going to do great things. And one of those things is you being an ADHD coach for your own company.

Are you excited about that journey? Can we touch on that? Are you excited about that journey of being in business for yourself? I am. Yeah. So I'm really enjoying stepping into my own power. Yeah, that was very much like a phrasing from my horoscope from the full moon in Leo that just passed.

Huh Yeah, and it was just like yeah, you know You're gonna cut ties with all the things that don't serve you and you're gonna step into your power and I was like Yeah, okay and then The rug got pulled out from under me and I was like, Alright, I guess we are gonna do that, in fact, step into our own power thing.

Got it. I think that's really cool. But yeah, I've just I'm just, like I said, what I really care about is talking to people gaining clarity on like why we do the things and helping them minimize their own suffering and the suffering that they inflict on others.

Like the butterfly, the wave. Yep. Yeah, you're Yeah, so I'm like so excited that I'm still gonna just do that. I don't think ever in my life I would have imagined that this would happen to me and I would just continue no big deal. I think normally I would have let this consume me and, Taken a really long time to recover maybe or maybe switch careers forever like the total ADHD thing.

Yeah, yeah have a bad experience here. Everything here is fucked I'm gonna go all the way to the other side of it and then deconstruct and then eventually fall somewhere in the middle. Yeah, Prior to having the rug pull out from you. Had you ever thought you know what maybe I just want to be in business for myself Or is this a new thing?

I just, I just wanted to be my own master. Yeah. And I thought that being a freelancer would get me that freedom. But Not always the case. Yeah. Sometimes you've gotta do it for yourself. Yeah. You didn't get the parenting you deserved, do it for yourself or enlist some support.

Yeah. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. Oh, I'm so excited. I'm so glad. Thank you. You're welcome. I'm like, selfishly, I'm like, I'm always, I'm like, always looking for business besties. I'm just like, Sarah, the fact that you're going on down this journey, I'm like, can we please be best friends forever? In a super low maintenance way that works for you.

I'm like, zero pressure. Not saying I already gave you my text number. This is true. This is true. So intimate. This is true. And I'm gonna text you after this so that you have mine as well. And then we can text on texting versus Facebook, because sometimes I'm slightly better with texting than I am on Messenger.

Do you know what type of clients that you want to work with? You have experience with, a certain type of person. Do you know which type of person you want to work with, at least at this moment? Yeah, I am really well suited to help parents who are neurodivergent of any kind.

I'm, Really good support for my emotional queens like the like super emotional besties out there Sometimes you're a woman and sometimes you're a man like both can be true. Okay Yeah I'm definitely the coach for someone who's looking for an anti racist perspective because above all else, I think that's what I am.

I'm gonna have to go through and revise some of my bios, because I'm definitely going all in on calling myself an anti racist ADHD coach, or audio ADHD coach. I still don't know how to say that out loud, which is why I usually just say ADHD coach. Yeah. Yeah, but, yeah, and I somebody who's looking to explore more holistic and tactile grounding exercises and ways of feeling better in your body.

Yeah, so if any of that sounds good book a free meeting with me, and I'd love to meet you. This is so freaking awesome. Sarah, you are just like one of the coolest fucking people. I'm really glad that we connected. I'm so grateful that we met and our paths crossed and that you went out of your way to send me that message and then we were able to continue a conversation and then come back into each other's lives like at this point.

I'm really grateful for it and I'm so grateful for you being here and your vulnerability and sharing so much wisdom and just raw experience. Because I think that's one of the greatest teachers. I really appreciate you. I appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me on. My debut as a podcast guest.

I love it. Phenomenal. Thank you so much. You are so welcome. Are you a high achieving woman with ADHD looking for a coach or maybe an event coordinator looking for a wildly captivating speaker? Perfect. Go to OutsmartADHD. co. That's OutsmartADHD. co to get in touch. And before I forget, would you mind taking a minute to share this podcast with someone you love? It would mean the world to me.

Thanks my friend. Until next time.