How to Lessen ADHD Symptoms Naturally with Neurofeedback with Taryn Towers

  Welcome to the Outsmart ADHD podcast. I'm your host, Jamie Cuttino, board certified occupational therapist, two time TED speaker, ADHD coach, ADHD advocate, and reality show contestant. Now, let's talk about ADHD.

 Hello, my friends. Welcome back to the Outsmart ADHD podcast. I'm really excited about our guest this week. Today, we have Taryn Towers with us. She is the co owner of Brain Train Centers in Grapevine, South Lake, Texas. Um, she brings nearly two decades of experience in the health and wellness industry, and her passion is helping individuals achieve their optimal health, enabling them to fulfill their God given potential.

Her experie er, expertise is in longevity, detoxification, lifestyle habits, and neurofeedback. Oh, I'm so excited to get into this conversation. At Brain Train Centers, she, uh, they specialize in neurofeedback, focusing on regulating dysregulated areas of the brain. This approach Helps alleviate symptoms associated with ADHD, stress, anxiety, and other neurological challenges.

Their mission is to provide hope and guidance, ensuring that they train your brain, wait, ensuring that the train of your brain stays up, stays on track. There we go. That was a little bit of a tongue tie. Taryn, thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you so much for having me. I feel like such a, such an honor and a blessing to be here.

So thank you, Jamie. I feel the same. I was really excited when you reached out. I've had neurofeedback in the, in the past. And I think that a lot of people know that it's an option for ADHD. So I'm really excited to, to get into this conversation with you. First of all, I want to know why you specifically.

Said, you know what? I'm going to take on this endeavor of co owning a neurofeedback place, because that's like quite the undertaking. Like what got you from, what started that dream? I'm curious. Yeah, that's a great question. So as you read my bio, I have a, most of my professional background has been in health and wellness space.

And I started in the gym as a strength and conditioning coach and really just through my own health challenges. And you know, like your journey, you've kind of figured out through your journey. Um, I went through, multiple different health challenges. And so as I started to dive deeper and dig deeper into health, I really started to understand nutrition more, gut health more, how the gut and the brain are related.

And so I really, Just started to expand my network and I tried to connect with every health professional that I wanted to. Um, you know, one of my mentors, um, Ben Greenfield in this space, I was like, I want to work for him one day. I got the chance to work for him. Uh, and really just started to dive into like deeper and deeper layers of health, so to speak.

And so that brought me to, through working with different doctors and chiropractors and functional medicine doctors, Brought me to a functional medicine doctor that I know who offered neurofeedback at his office And I started to get to know the owner of that neurofeedback. It was they were just kind of renting Space there and her and I really just connected and I was like, this is a piece of my health and wellness expertise that I really want to make sure I offer to people because as you know, when the brain's not running well, the rest of the body isn't running well.

Oh my gosh. No, it's like, it's the captain. If that, if that's going to crap, then everything's going to crap. Um, so a lot of people listening are like, okay, neurofeedback, that sounds like a really fun, fancy word. What does that mean? Can you explain to everyone what neurofeedback means in a way that if they had never heard the word before, they would kind of understand.

Yeah. So I actually find it kind of funny. So when people ask me what I do and I say neurofeedback, they're like, Oh, there's like two responses. Like either, Oh my gosh, what does that tell me more? Or it's like, Oh, that sounds like way too complicated. We're going to go somewhere else in the conversation. Um, so basically what neurofeedback is, is it is looking at any dysregulated brainwave patterns.

and helping regulate them. So a lot of challenges that we face in our day to day are because our brainwaves are moving too slow or too fast. And so what neurofeedback does is optimize those brainwave patterns so that we can essentially think clearly. So, obviously it's more in depth than that, but that's a very, like, easy way to understand it.

Yeah, that was so, that was so beautifully and succinctly put. Have you practiced this? Have you been on other shows? Or, like, you've probably had to practice it so many times of, like, explaining it to people. Like, that was just such a beautiful definition to where I'm like, it's just, it, it's, it was great.

Um, I know when people ask me like what is an occupational therapist do it's like, I'm still trying to find a succinct definition to where everyone can kind of have a good understanding so I'm just going to try to. I'm hoping that maybe some, some good Taron vibes rub off on maybe me I'll be able to like, find the right words.

Um, So I'm curious if your, if your, um, place does it similar to where mine was. It was, it was either you would watch like a TV show or it would be like a game where there's like a person running and when your brain was in like the optimal zone, the picture or the person would keep running. And then when your brain was going too fast or too slow, it would pause it.

Until, so it was almost like positive feedback, like for your brain. And I'm curious, like, if that's similar to how you guys do it, how do you do your brain training? Yeah. So similar, um, lots of different ways to skin a cat. Right. So, um, very similar in the aspect of, I know our listeners can't see, but they're like, you can see in our video, um, there's, so I have a TV and the TV is connected to my computer, which is connected to my software.

They just choose a Netflix show. So I love it. Especially it's real easy to get kids in here. They could just get to come quote unquote watch TV show, Uhhuh . But when they're watching the show, I have a protocol set up for what I want. So let's just say for example, we want theta waves to slow down. So what I have said in my program is.

Different parameters for that. And we start off neurofeedback, I say, casting a wide net. So anytime that my sensors that are on their head pick up that their theta waves have slowed down, then the picture and the sound get brighter and louder. And then anytime my sensors pick up that those theta waves have slowed down, sped up, the picture will get darker and the sound will go down.

So the, what that does is it triggers the brain of what happened? I want to, I want to see that picture. And so the brain operatic conditioning, right? It starts to, after session after session, it starts to realize that, Oh, I remembered when my theta waves slowed down, they, I got to see the picture. So I kind of explain it like.

You know, when we teach little kids how to go to the bathroom, we're like, Hey, here's a skittle to go to the bathroom. Yeah. Well, what do they want to do? They want to go to the bathroom again. Right. They can get a skittle. And I, that's like kind of what the brain is doing. The brain's like, I want to see the picture.

I want to hear the show. Right. I remembered that I did this. To get that, that is, is so, so freaking Cool. And do you see with your clients are, is it like a certain amount of sessions they're pretty much good to go? Do they come back for maintenance? I'm curious about like, the longevity of a, um, of a treatment like this.

Yeah, that is a great question. So research shows us that 30 to 40 is minimum. That's not to say that you can't see change before that, obviously, but pretty typical research shows that 30 to 40 is the minimum. So typically I'll see someone two to three times a week. And then we can spread that out. Um, we'll, we'll do that 30 or 40 sessions and then we can do maintenance after that, just depending and, um, or they can come back, you know, a couple months later and get some kind of tune up, so to speak, but we usually started that 30 to 40 and then if they are, um, if there's some major chronic issue or.

There's been some major trauma or there's been some, a lot of mold toxicity or different, uh, factors like that, then we, they may be on a protocol that is more of like a 50 to 60, but typically we're seeing some of between that 30 to 60. That is just, it's so freaking cool to think that, I mean, obviously we know with neuroplasticity, your brain can change at any time.

It's not like, you know, you hit there before there's just like, okay, well your brain's completely done at 25. It's like, no, maybe it's like developed, but your brain can change constantly throughout your lifetime. And it's just really, really cool that there is, it's so freaking cool. So I am curious, do you use.

Qs brain maps. What does that mean? I, I feel like I have an idea, but I'm not gonna embarrass myself. I just want you to explain to me what the heck a brain map is and how you use it in your center. Yeah. So basically what a brain map is, is, or A QEG, it's a quantitative and sec and, and raft. Um, what that does is it gives us the big picture.

Okay. So client will come in. I will put a cap on them, and set it up to, obviously my software, the cap, I'll fill the cap with gel. So, all that is doing is reading brainwave activity. Okay. So, everyone's like, what are you gonna do to my brain? What are you, you know, are you changing my brain? And it's, it's literally sensors that are reading.

The top of that brain wave activity. So the groups of the neurons that are firing and what it does is we have the brain has different sites. So we have 13 different sites that we're looking at. And then each of those sites obviously has a different function. So during the Q. E. G. test. I do about six dif client's eyes open because take in our stimuli and t eyes closed.

And so we're of the base brain. So I'l And then read the speed basically at each of the sites on the brain. So it'll take around 30 to 45 minutes. It just depends on, um, you know, it does pick up on. So if I have a little kid that's like moving all around, like I need the client to be as still as possible.

So, um, if I have a little kiddo that's moving around, that could take a little bit longer. Yeah. Um, and then I get a whole the so the E. G. It refers to the sensors and the feedback. And then when you see the Q. E. G. That's all of that information put into a quantitative database. Of all this neurofeedback research and saying okay based on your age And your sex your male or female This is what?

the This is what the brain wave speed should be um, and so I don't like to say this is what the normal is because i'm a big fan of Where there is no one person like you are the only Jamie out there that is like you that has your brain that is functions like you. I'm the only Terran out there and so, um, but we do know typical brainwave patterns in certain areas.

So if one's moving slower or faster, we know how to regulate that. Now, the output, I think it's going to look different between your brain and my brain because we're built individual, you know, but, um, sorry, I'm getting off there, but Oh, don't be. That's how the conversations go here. We don't ever stay on track, whatever the fuck it on track means.

So you're, this is great. Right? Yeah. So we'll run, uh, we'll run that test and then I get a big long printout of all kinds of information. So all of the different sites that I looked at how fast they're going how slow if they're going at optimal Um, we're looking at like right and left how they're speaking Um, we can see if there's been white matter inflammation, like if there's been, um, trauma like physical trauma, like concussions, I love to see people for concussions, um, because we can get rid of that white matter inflammation.

So there's a ton of information that we look at. And then based off of that, I will have a client back and we'll go over a report of findings. It's really cool to see just how individualized it is. I like, as you're, as you're describing it, I'm remembering my process going through this and it's showing like, what is a typical for, you know, my age and gender and whatnot, and it's just, it's really, really cool.

I am curious. I know everyone is completely different, but do you notice patterns amongst people with ADHD and what their brain map looks like, or is it really not Is there really not a pattern because everyone is so individual? Yeah. So, um, that is the cool thing about QEGs. You definitely can find patterns.

So there is a pretty typical pattern of someone who has ADHD. Now there's obviously going to be variance in it. Um, and when we look at the part that shows us all of the different sites, um, So, uh, we, we get kind of a, sorry, I explained this without seeing it. There's a, there's a picture of the brain and then it shows, I know on some of your stuff, I've seen this, that shows different colors of the brain.

Um, and so you can see if like one area is like really hot red or yellow. And if one area is like running too low blue. And then that's kind of like the overall. And then what we can see on another graph is the individual sites. So we're looking at all the individual sites throughout the head. Um, typically, what I'll typically see is that, um, data.

So I'll kind of, I'll kind of get off track a little bit, but it'll be good. Um, so as far as. What we see with ADHD is a lot of people will say, Oh, my kid's been diagnosed with ADHD, or I think they have ADHD. Um, they just, they're too hyperactive. They're all over the place. They can't keep focused and their brain's running too fast.

And typically, or actually what it is, Is the brain is running too slow. So we have four different, uh, brainwaves that we're looking at. We're looking at Delta, Theta, Alpha, and Beta. So respectively, Delta is the slowest, that's when we're sleeping. Theta is when we're getting ready to go into that sleep state, kind of that falling asleep.

Um, Alpha is kind of that, oh, I'm awake, I'm just kind of doing things. I, that's kind of like calm focus. And then Beta is that like hyper focus. So what I'll see a lot is that those slower speeds are producing too much. So what happens is, let's say, for example, we see a lot of the theta producing too much.

So if you think logically, now it's, I have too much of this slow speed. So my brain's essentially trying to go to sleep all day. So what am I going to do to counterbalance that? I'm going to change topics. I'm not going to stay focused. I'm, the brain's like, I've got to stay awake. So I'm going to try and do all these different things because I'm trying to keep going.

So if we can slow that down, then the brain can get into more of a focus and then we're not all over the place. That is incredible to think that the, the hyperactivity, whether it is externalized or internalized is really happening because our brain actually isn't going fast enough and it's saying, okay, hello, like something needs to wake me up or else I'm going to fall asleep here.

That is absolutely fascinating. Isn't that crazy? That is, that is wild. I'm curious, do you have people that come to you who may have gone through trauma, but not physical trauma? Whether it was, they were in a, say like a mentally abusive relationship and how that would change their brain. I'm curious if you get people like that, that come into your center, or is it specific to conditions like anxiety, depression, ADHD, concussions, and things like that?

Yeah, so I will have people come in, um, that kind of a, Yeah. They're all case by case basis, but, um, someone will probably come in because they're, they can't sleep or they're depressed or maybe they're anxious. And then a lot of the time I'll see that there has been some trauma, um, in, in multiple different ways.

So people don't necessarily come to me like they would a talk therapy and being like, Um, I'm going through trauma, actually, depending on the level of trauma, too, if they're in an actual current trauma, um, I don't typically see them because it's just not the right time for nerve feedback. Right, right. And that, and that makes complete sense.

I'm thinking of, like, back of why I went to, um, Um, to get neurofeedback. And I remember as I was having a terrible time sleeping, obviously focusing in school was very, very hard. And it was, like you said, the, like the very, um, I'm trying to think of a good way to say like, obviously everything affects your daily life, but those pillars of like, I can't function because I'm not able to, you know, sleep focus and whatnot.

And that was why I went to. To neurofeedback. Um, do you have any story of somebody who came into your center, and they left like almost like a completely different person obviously you can't say their name or anything but I'm curious if you have any, any stories like that just because I think it'd be really cool to have an idea of like what this actually looks like.

Yeah, so I have a couple of stories I'm thinking of. Um, one of them was we had a little down, uh, down to the ground boy come in, completely nonverbal, and I think at about session 15, 17, um, he started to write his name, and which he had never done before, which was, I mean, just, Brought tears to me because, um, clearly we're not going to change that overall state of, of him.

Um, we don't have a magic wand obviously, but he started to operate and function completely different and started to be able to express himself more. Um, and so that just always gives And then I would say another one was a 20 year old client of mine, um, came in, uh, very much just kind of a little bit socially awkward.

Um, a little bit kind of like on edge. Um, very kind of not, not looking at, not looking you in the eye, making eye contact. And, uh, wanted to just create more motivation in her life and, uh, so went through, she actually, um, went through the neurofeedback and, uh, I'm trying to think of a session link. Um, Our pretty typical protocol went through that and she, she got a bunch of feedback from like her family and friends of like, she's just showing up in life different.

She feels more motivated. She gets back to her creative outlets. She feels like she wants to do things now. Um, just her interaction with me was completely different. There was more eye contact. Um, there was a want to go out and start kind of tackling life. Um, and then friends and family were giving her feedback of just more joy, more interaction, better interaction, quality interaction.

And to me, that is, I mean, I believe that my purpose in life is to help people be as healthy as they can physically. And so that they can go do what they're called to do in life. And so that was just like on display right there. That is, those are just absolutely incredible stories. I was going to ask, like, what is your favorite part about what you do?

But it sounds like the transformation that you see before and after is like the favorite part of, of what you do. Mm hmm. It is. And I think that, you know, it's I'm seeing them so minimum of 30 sessions, right? So I'm seeing them typically two to three times a week. So you get to really see them. I mean, it's not like talk therapy.

So I'm not sitting here talking to them for a long time. But, you know, I get feedback from what's going on like before and after their sessions. And it's really cool just to be like, Hey, I get a chance to be a voice, uh, in someone's life. Like I never take for granted that I've been placed in this position and that I get to be a voice.

So I take that very seriously. Yeah. And so I really just try to encourage them on. Thought processes, you know, I always say I can do all the neurofeedback that I want But if you're not doing your part and if you're not trying you're not putting yourself in a positive environment if you're not thinking In a growth mindset way if you aren't serving others if you're not, you know doing something than just thinking about you and being negative, then it's not going to work super well.

So the fact that I get to be a voice in their life of nutrition, um, all of the things that go along with creating a healthy brain. I, I love this because you're so right. It's, you can get all the, all the neurofeedback in the world, but if you are not in the right environment for you, it's not going to, you're not going to grow into like the person that you, that you can be.

So it sounds like, it sounds like you go beyond even, you know, sleep, nutrition and whatnot. And you're really looking at like, okay, what does your daily life look like? Who are, who are the people that you're hanging around? Like, are they. Are they inspiring you? Is that, am I, is that accurate? Like you're talking to them about like their daily life outside of even just those pillars of, you know, sleep, nutrition and whatnot.

Yeah. So I don't necessarily, that's not necessarily how I'm like marketing, advertising myself. Um, but I think as I'm sure you're a coach, you're a trainer, you're a leader and all the things that you do, all the amazing areas that you get to be in the spaces that you get to be in the people, and I'm sure you've seen in your own journey of all the hard work that you've done, that there is no magic pill, there is no, let's just like, you know, do one thing and we're done.

And it's really a matter of, I think in our culture, we're, you know, You know, we're in a microwave culture and especially our, our younger ones, you know, they're like, Oh, I just want like a quick fix. And so I think it's retraining that of like. Hey, like, I love that you, you know, know how to do social media and all that stuff, but you're coming to me and you're depressed, but you're sitting in your room all day long with this phone right in front of your face, like, it's not gonna be beneficial.

I don't even care if you're watching like motivation all day long like you alone in a room on a screen It's not even beneficial No, it's not it's not I know it's really hard for us adhds I have to have a literally an app blocker on my phone so that i'm not seeing Spending time because I know if I go on Tik Tok, it's game over.

I'm going to be scrolling for the next three hours and it doesn't matter how good my algorithm is because most of it is just, you know, funny stuff and dog videos, but I'm going to feel like crap after scrolling. Cause my brain is used to that, that new stimulation at like every five seconds. And it's just, it's like, why am I getting off of my phone?

Watching, you know, funny videos. Feeling like crap. I'm exhausted. It's like, I feel like I've been working for 12 hours and all I've been doing is scrolling TikTok. Um, so yeah, I'm right, I'm right there with you, Taryn. Like it doesn't matter how much neurofeedback you get in the world, because if you're, if your life outside of it isn't changing, like crap ain't going to be changing for you.

Yeah, it's like I um, I have a longevity wellness concierge business and I do a lot of like nutrition coaching as well and lifestyle and so often when people come to me and they want to lose weight, I'm just like, Hey, I'm going to tell you right now, this is going to be a year long process. I'm not going to give you a magic, you know, pill.

And it's because you have to create that thought process too. You have to literally change. Your lifestyle and your thought process. And that's what you mentioned in neuroplasticity earlier. That's the cool thing. Like that's one of my mentors says, that's the amazing thing about the brain and that's the hardest thing.

Because we can rewire all this junk, or we can rewire all this great stuff. Right. It's, it's so true. Um, for anybody listening that is considering neurofeedback, or is just even open to it now, Um, do you have anything to say to them if they're having any fears? If they're like, I don't know if this will work for me, because, you know, a lot of people listening probably feel like, I've tried everything in the world, how is this going to be any different?

And what do you have to say to them, Taryn? Taryn. Yeah, so I love that question because I've gone through a lot of challenges in health my with my own health and My mom said something to me one day that I called her and I was like, you know a while back I was like, I'm just so sick of all this like I try so hard and She was like, well, what's the other option you just quit and you never get better And so I was like, I'll always remember that.

And I've taken that into my practice and just saying like, I understand the person that's like, I've tried everything. Um, and there's always something else. And I don't mean that of just go try everything, but I always just say you're one thing away from feeling, even if it's a little bit better. And so someone who's like, I don't know about neurofeedback.

I always say, Go get a QEG, a brain map. A brain map is for everyone. Neurofeedback isn't for everyone. And so, I always tell everyone, just start with a QEG and see what's going on. You don't have to do anything else with it. But it's super helpful for you to be like, Okay, this is like, I remember when I got my first QEG, I was like, I literally, like started like crying.

I had tears in my eyes because my part of my brain map was very, uh, symbolic of ADHD. And so my whole life, I mean, I just kind of went through life and I just You know, went through school and did school how I did it, you know, but it was always challenged for me. Learning was always challenged. Like everything was just a challenge for me.

And so when I started to go through and, um, she started explaining to me what the QEG was showing. I was like, There's a reason I've been operating like this. Now I take that as I don't be a victim and saying like, okay, well, I'm just going to stay this way forever. Right. I take it as like a breath of fresh air.

Like, okay, like there's reasons that this has been happening, but now here's a solution to create more optimization. So it was like a breath of fresh air. I mean, like, Oh, man, I've operated like this so long and I didn't have to, you know, did you, sorry, did not mean to interrupt you. Did you have any type of grieving process when you realized like, okay, this is, this is how my brain is functioning.

It could have been easier had I known earlier. I'm curious with your journey specifically, Taryn, like did you have any type of grieving process or was it more like, okay, well it makes sense. And I see that there is a solution over here and I'm going to do it. I'm curious what your process was with that.

Yeah. Yeah, so there yeah, there was a moment where I was like man But i've done enough work on myself at this point that I was like Okay, I have two options. I can look back at the last 35 years of my life and being like Why? all of that or I can be like Oh, man, I got a tool now and I'm gonna move forward because there's so much more to do in life Yeah, god put me here.

I'm still breathing. There's still a lot more to do and so I really just I think at one point in my life, I may have um Sat in it for too long Like i'm a big believer that if something happened like of course sit with it process it but don't get stuck there Yeah, and so I really just kind of took that of like, okay I I'm gonna move forward Yeah, this sucks, but it was actually more, Jamie, it was more of like a relief of like, there was an actual reason.

Validation. Because I think it was like, I was like, something's wrong with me. Yeah. Like, I can never understand this, or I can never, like, retain this, or I can never do this. Mm hmm. And it was just like, okay, well, there's a reason. Now, I'm not gonna just say, that's why life is, and sit there, but I'm like, okay, now I actually have a tool.

To support that and change that and move forward. Yeah. I, I love that thought process. I am, I'm very similar in that, like when I, when I find that, when I find the cause to, to something, I don't sit in it for too long. It's like, yeah, let's, I'll validate it. I will look at it, I'll accept it. Okay, great. But then it's like, okay, great.

Now what? Now, now what the fuck am I gonna do about this? Because I am so obsessed with just squeezing every little bit I can out of life that now it's like. There's an answer and I'm going to go try to find a solution, whatever that looks like. So I am obsessed with your thought process. And also your mom sounds like a really, really cool person.

That sounds like something that my mom would have told me too, is like, okay, like, what are, what are your options? Like we can, we can sit here and be sad about it, but what is that going to actually do for you? Yeah. Yeah, I, I love this. Now, everyone listening is going to be like, please tell me that Taryn's, uh, center is near me because I'm going to go run there.

Um, how do people get in touch with you? Remind us again where you are located. So we are in Grapevine, Texas. Okay. And, uh, we also do, um, have other centers. So if someone is not here, I can always direct them towards another center that we're connected with. Okay. Um, and then we also do do home units as well.

So I do need someone in office to do their QEG, but then they could do home unit training as well. So we can work that way as well. Okay, and I've had home, the home unit training too. Can I ask you a question, Taryn? The effectiveness of home unit training? Home unit training versus in center training. Is there a difference?

Is there not? I am curious about this because of the having like less sensors and stuff. I was just always curious if there's a difference in the effectiveness or anything like that. Yeah, great question. So I, my personal thought process on it is there's a lot of factors. There are certain people that come in But after we've gone through history, we know what's going on.

We know what daily life looks like and I say no home units not going to be a good option because Home is very chaotic. Home is not really a healthy place. Okay. And so when I'm trying to train you in that environment, it's not the best. Obviously in my office, it's very controlled. There's not noise surrounding you.

I'm the one hooking you up. I mean, with home units, we show you exactly how to do it. But, um, so that being said, we have great success with our home units, but we are very. specific who we will allow with that. That makes, that makes complete. So the training outside of all of that, the training, you're going to get just as good results.

But I do believe that there is a big factor of kind of like the controlled environment around you. Okay. That makes complete sense. Thank you. Um, so if people wanted to check, check you out, um, what is your website and don't worry for everyone listening. I'm going to make sure I put it in the show notes, but can you let us know what the website is for your center?

Yeah. So you can go to brain train, B R A I N T R A I N. D F w. com. So brain train stands for Dallas Fort word. com. Awesome. Taryn, thank you so much. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Nope. I was just going to say, you'll see, cause I'm a part of a collective. So you'll see different centers on there. Um, and then our center will be on there.

Perfect. Taryn, thank you so much for, I feel like I just got like a masterclass in brain health. Just thank you for all that you do for all the lives that you're touching. Um, You like, you see the impact of what's happening in your office, but I'm just going to remind you that you can't even see the full impact because those, the ripple waves of effect, like effect, they go way past where you can see.

So I'm just gonna remind you of how amazing you are and the lives that you're touching, you're touching lives that you don't even see because you're affecting not even your specific people, but all their people around them too. And I think it's just what you're doing is really, really cool. Thank you so much.

And I also wanted to tell you, thank you for what you're doing. And just as I've listened to your podcast and your Ted talks and just your, your energy that you bring. And now that I get to see you like face to face, just your smile. And I just thank you for doing, I know you've put a lot of sacrifice into what you do.

Um, I know it hasn't come easy in, I think that when we're called to something bigger, when we step outside of ourselves, it can be challenging at times, but it's the most rewarding thing. So I really appreciate what you're doing and how much you serve. Thank you. Thank you so much, Taryn. And, um, yeah, everyone that's listening, go run to the website.

It'll be in the show notes and Taryn, I will talk to you later. Thank you so much. Thank you.

 Are you a high achieving woman with ADHD looking for a coach or maybe an event coordinator looking for a wildly captivating speaker? Perfect. Go to outsmartadhd. co that's outsmartadhd. co to get in touch. And before I forget, would you mind taking a minute to share this podcast with someone you love? It would mean the world to me.

Thanks my friend until next time.